The STEM Crisis No One Talks About (And How One Doctor Is Fixing It)

Dr. Eugene Manley has three degrees and couldn't get a job.

This mechanical engineer, biomedical engineer, and molecular biologist discovered the brutal truth: academia teaches you everything except how to succeed outside academia.

Growing up first-generation in Detroit, watching his family struggle with healthcare, he saw the devastating gaps in medical access for underserved populations.

Now he's fighting back through the SCHEQ Foundation, exposing why diverse scholars can't find work and why minorities don't get equal healthcare information.

This conversation will shatter everything you think you know about higher education and healthcare equity.

Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Dr. Eugene Manley Jr.
• 1:07 Founding the Sheck Foundation
• 3:53 Navigating Academic and Career Challenges
• 9:25 Leaving Academia for Greater Impact
• 12:41 Nonprofit Leadership as Entrepreneurship
• 16:26 Advice for Future Changemakers

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:07

Welcome back to another episode of Rise from the Ashes. I'm Bad Your Host Baz Porter. I am joined today by an absolute legend. He's becoming more of a friend than actually a work colleague. His name is Eugene Manley. He's also a doctor, PhD. I'm gonna let him explain who he is and what he does. Whereabouts are you, Eugene? And what do you do? Can you tell the world a bit about who you are?

SPEAKER_00: 0:33

Good morning, Baz. As he said, I'm Dr. Eugene Manley Jr. And right now I'm based in New York City. But I grew up in Detroit, and I run a nonprofit called the Sheck Foundation or SCHEQ, which stands for STEM and Cancer Health Equity. And more broadly, we work to increase workforce diversity in STEM fields, getting information and resources to patients help them navigate basic medical care and cancer care, and we help organizations, community engagement, and trial diversity.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06

That's a hell of a mouthful. How did you going back a few years ago? How did you come to doing what you're doing now? What was that journey for you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:15

That was actually a very interesting story. If you had asked me five years ago, I would have never said I would be running a nonprofit. It was not remotely on my radar. But I grew up in Detroit, first gen inner city, and I just saw how healthcare was and wasn't delivered to my family, and how they, you know, was struggled to get information. You know, they couldn't really read the my chart notes. As I went through academia at different levels, I saw they were happy to have diverse scholars at the time, but they weren't necessarily making sure that we get the grant writing or the other tools and skills to then go into academia and sustain careers. And then lastly, as I transitioned to patient advocacy, but also as did some caregiving growing up, I just saw that many underserved populations don't get the same access to information that majority populations get. They don't get the same information about screening, clinical trials, biomarkers. And I finally decided that there was something I needed to address. And then I put my brain together because I'm a mechanical engineer, a biomedical engineer, animalcular biologist. And I said, what can I do to actually address some of these structural issues? And that sort of laid the foundation for the launching of the Chef Foundation. But if you think of it, we look at childhood where we see no people that really look like you in STEM fields. So I decided how can we give more information out to kids to let them know about different STEM careers, how to get in them, what kind of a day in the life is like, how do we then help these scholars that are in university or professional programs navigate their degrees, their degree transitions to get them in the workforce. And then lastly, really trying to simplify the medical terminology so the patients can understand it and be more empowered to advocate for care that they're entitled. I I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 3:29

But then they go out into the work into the work market or the markets and they can't find one. Because it's there's just saturation. I don't know the dynamics behind it. This isn't my expertise at all. What are the challenges you see with this sort of transition from university getting highly qualified and then coming out into the medical field and finding there's no work for them?

SPEAKER_00: 3:53

So there are multiple levels where there are challenges. Typically, if you're first gen, often you don't know that there's an advanced degree or advanced degrees. You may not know how to apply for jobs, you may not know how to do interviews, and then once you get in the workspace, sometimes you still don't understand that you have to track a certain way in professional environments to keep a job in advance. It doesn't necessarily mean it's may fit with your personality, but you have to learn how to navigate those spaces. But often the biggest challenge is you go get a degree, but you're only taught about that degree, and you're not taught about what other options there are. Typically, undergrads, you go, you're gonna do an engineering degree. Okay, do I get a master's or do I just go to work? Or am I gonna go to med school and then go to work? Then the biggest vague spot is the PhD because people think the P, yes, the PhD makes you an expert in one small space, but so many people misunderstand that the PhD teaches you problem solving, critical thinking, writing, perseverance, and these are skills that can translate to many other areas. So so many people don't know that you can go into government, nonprofit, patient advocacy, science writing, science communication. Basically, the roles are limitless with a science degree. If you don't get so stuffed that I have a PhD, I must do what my degree is. So that's the artist and getting people to understand the degree gave you the skills to show you can critically think, but then you can apply them anywhere, and that's the biggest gap they don't have. But also, academia has a record of really only teaching you what you need to do for your degree or to stay in academia, that doesn't necessarily help you translate that out to jobs that are outside of academia, so that also becomes a challenge for scholars. And then if we're looking at hiring, well, that's a whole different hidden caboodle. You could apply for jobs for days, but still, unless you really have someone on the inside that is inside pulling for you, it is really hard to get past ATS. And even if you get past it, there's no guarantee you're still going to get an interview. And then, at least what I see underserved scholars, we have to try to play this line of okay, we have this question, you know, name a situation this why are you leaving this job? And then you're playing the game of giving the answers they need to hear, as opposed to being able to be truthful because they they want to know that you're safe to hire, not necessarily how great you are. So you always are trying to balance that when you're interviewing, and it's a really, really tough road. And interviewing is I mean, even just applying is frustrating because you could people say I've applied for 40 jobs and not got a call back. That doesn't that's not a reflection of you, it's it is exhausting and ex and painful and stressful, and you, I mean, if not unheard of putting out two to three hundred apps before you get in a couple of interviews. Then sometimes if you're good or lucky, you get them sooner. But there's no unfortunately, there's no mystery box that's gonna make you get a fast or get an interview.

SPEAKER_01: 7:14

I mean, that's your to me, that sounds like extreme bias within industries. I I don't know the industry, so I can't speak into it. But you mentioned something earlier to me, and I want to come back into what you're saying now, but you mentioned something earlier to me about five years ago, you wouldn't believe you were doing this today. What led you to that five-year point a few years ago and going, well, what was the lead up to that, and why did you change the whole structure of your basic life and what you did, your identity?

SPEAKER_00: 7:45

Well, I've always been a unique individual and I've always done things outside the box. I've never stayed within a box, really never have. And so I've always been just willing to explore and do different things. And I saw my education as every degree was a chance to get different tools and skills. So my undergrad was just getting the engineering degree, my master's was getting the biomedical engineering and biomechanics, the PhD was getting the cancer work in the molecular biology. Then there was this phase where I wanted to be a professor to study cancers that metastasize the bone. So I started doing work in bone biology, biomechanics, arsenic, and do carcinogenesis and like signaling cascades and cancer, and then breast cancer imaging. But then I finally hit the point where I said I was getting tired of being underpaid as a postdoc. And then as you do, and what you don't know going in is your PhD is the best time for you to get a job. Finish the degree, get a job. If you go into postdocs, even though you're a professional at that point, every year in a postdoc means you still are considered a trainee. So if you go to apply for an industry job, those years of postdocing don't count, so you're just losing professional years. I know that sounds crazy. So I postdoc seven plus years and they don't count. You don't get professional credit, so you're still starting at scientists or assistant scientists zero. So it's like if you know you're not going to send it, get out as soon as you can. Have the market will be hard to get a job. So I would tell people, especially in the biological sciences, it is okay to go to a startup because the goal is just to start getting professional experience because they count years of doing stuff. So just get any company and do a year or two, even if you jump this, keep moving.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

I love that advice. I mean, people go in there and go stagnate into stagnation, not just in your field, but in a lot of fields. They go into stagnation of I'll just do it because I know this is safe. And they're in this box of oh, I know what I'm doing here, but when they go hit the real world and they want to transition, suddenly they can't. Because they have this, oh, you've done this, but it doesn't count. It's like what you just said reset to zero. How did you navigate some of this?

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

I was always just driven, motivated, and I never let systems tell me what I could or couldn't do. Some have tried, but I'm very stubborn and very independent. And so if I ever get to a point where I'm not going to be allowed to do the things that I think will have the best impact, and I don't have a rational reason for why they're being inhibited, then I will leave. You don't have to stay and be miserable. You don't have to stay when people are disrespecting. You don't have to stay when they're playing favorites. You you will see this a lot. You mean sometimes you have to stay because you need a job, but don't let a job be the reason you get run down into the ground and then start doubting yourself. So I use, I think all jobs, you should get skills from every job you have, the good or bad. You can take these interstellars. Ah, this is something I can do assimilate all my skills. Like I still am a re technically a researcher. I can still do biomechanics, I can still understand cancer, but now I do a lot more patient education, patient advocacy. But also, I've always been a communicator and a talker. So I just combine all this stuff into one. It wasn't that I thought about it, just okay, I have to add this. I've got grant management, I've got science writing, I know how to advocate. I've literally seen what healthcare doesn't look like. What can we do to help populations that don't really readily have access to information and resources? So that's the long version of sort of how I launched the nonprofit.

SPEAKER_01: 11:46

I love that. I mean, it's trial by fire, basically. You've gone through a series of challenges overcoming them, and then you've learned how to navigate a system which is slightly uh largely outdated because of the bias towards what they knew about three, four hundred years ago, and it still goes on. We go into classrooms today, even in the schools, and they indoctrinate people to sit in certain ways when they do the exams. It's the same thing. There has there's no model been updated to fit the environment which it is today. Correct, and and there's a whole thing behind that that I won't go into on live on air for a thousand reasons. I like my podcast, I like it to be led, and you know, I don't want to get shut down. But anyway, what as when you entered entrepreneurship, Eugene, how was that transition for you? Because it entrepreneurs is just like living on a roller coaster constantly until you get you someone once said to me, You can't be efficient or you can't be effective if you're not efficient. So, this this aspect of entrepreneurship is that roller coaster, it's getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. How has that journey been for you?

SPEAKER_00: 13:04

So interesting. Some people don't understand it, but launching a nonprofit is the same as entrepreneurship. The challenges are the same. It's you know, what's your mission? What's your product? What's your value proposition? What are you trying to do? How are you going to fundraise? Eventually, how are you going to staff? How are you going to scale? These are universal issues for anyone that's under you have to one, be some kind of visionary. You don't have to be a visionary leader, but you have to have some kind of vision that you can sort of shape into what you want your org to be. You have to have people that believe in what you're doing, that you can repeatedly talk and talk about it, sell it up, get people interested in investors. You have to be able to deal with the concept of getting told no a lot, and just deal with the rejection. And you will get told no a lot. If you can't accept that, you will have a hard time making an impact. And you will go through cycles, and I'm sure you know this very well, where some days are great, you have a great win. Then another day you don't get a grant, you don't get a funder, you don't get a partnership, and then you go through moments of do I have enough money to keep going? Do I need another job? Should I stop? Oh my God, this is great. Oh my God, I hate my life. I don't have enough hours. So you go through the whole gambit of emotions, and then if you are lucky, because you know, most boards don't make it more than five years. If you are lucky and have finally gotten traction and gotten the things you need on point, then you'll be able to be more stable, more readily able to get those clients, more able to show impact. But it usually the first one and a half to two years are the hardest.

SPEAKER_01: 14:45

I mean, what you're speaking into now is is great because there's a lot of entrepreneurs who are listening to this and going, hmm, entrepreneurship and non-profit, are they the same? Yes. And this is my experience, and you could please speak into this in a moment. A non-profit should always be trapped like a business anyway. A lot of people make a mistake is because it's a non-profit, they aren't supposed to earn money. That's not true. It's complete a false fallacy, and it's been driven because it's to keep people away from doing good in the world and keep you in that cycle of you must obey corporate blah blah blah. What you discovered is that little interim space where you can go, I want to do good, I love what I do, I know my knowledge base, and I can earn money at doing all of the big things that I love doing and encompass everything while still learning. Is that does that about some this up?

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

That's about accurate. And I would say the biggest thing is learning where you can really understand that value problem, understanding maybe only do one thing as much as you want to do. You mean you want to do five, do one thing, get really good, and that's hard because then people might say, Well, what other programs you have? I have one because I'm working to get this to show an impact. There's no reason to scale without showing the impact in the first thing. And that's where a lot of people go wrong. You can go chasing and chasing, but confine it to what works, and then show the impact. And it's the hardest thing when you're starting out. The other thing when you're running an org that people don't understand, yes, nonprofits technically do not make money, but that does not mean you cannot earn revenue. People get so caught on the mission. Yes, mission is part of it. That's the part that's that's free, but you have to also think how else can you make money? Can you do consulting through your nonprofit? Yes, you can. Can you do sales to your nonprofit? Yes, you can. So there are other ways to make revenue.

SPEAKER_01: 16:51

I love that. If you were to give advice to one that one person starting what you the start who was starting five years ago where you were, what would that advice be right now?

SPEAKER_00: 17:03

I would really say you have to believe in what you're doing, because that is what will keep you going, because you will have a lot of ups and downs. Really focus on one poor thing that you can do or at least show, start to show impact. Really try to at least have enough funds to make it the first six months, and then before thinking about another job, I pushed it to a year and a half, which was probably a mistake. But at least make sure you have six months worth of funds, and then just you know, there'll be a lot of times you want to quit, you want to stop, but keep going and try to build a network of other business leaders, entrepreneurs that can also help you so you can vent so you can keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_01: 17:43

I love that. Eugene, we're gonna pause for part one and go into part two in a moment. So everybody listening to this, if this resonates with you, please share it with a friend. Eugene's expertise in the nonprofit from going five years and changing, pivoting into something he really enjoys and values and does good and impacting the world may change someone's life. If you need to reach out to him, all the links are below. Go and look him, look him up on LinkedIn. He's heavy on there. For myself, thank you very much for listening. Please share the message. Remember, today and always, you are the miracle. Talk soon.